Hi, my name is Erica St. Angel,
and I want to thank you
for joining us for today's
webcast, Five Secrets to
Funding Lecture Capture.
A bit of housekeeping before
we get started, before I
introduce our presenter.
You'll be able to watch this
presentation on demand
immediately afterwards by
clicking the same link that
brought you here today.
And we also will be taking your
questions throughout the
presentation.
There's a little speech bubble
Ask button that you can use at
any time to ask us a question.
And if we don't have time to get
to all of your questions
today we do ask that you provide
your email address so
we can follow up with
you after the event.
There's also a Links tab with
some additional resources that
Sean will point out a
little bit later.
And now I'd like to introduce
Sean Brown.
Sean's our vice president of
education at Sonic Foundry.
He's got over eight years
of experience working in
education technology on both
the technology provider and
the higher education side.
And this is the first time he's
taken the mike in over
two dozen best practice webinars
that he's moderated.
He's now moved over to the
presenter role to share with
us his ideas and past success
that he's seen in finding
unique and successful ways to
find your lecture capture
initiatives.
Thanks, Sean.
Thank you.
Looking forward to it.
I hope I do half as well as the
guests that are usually in
this chair.
And it's very great to be
sitting here with Erica
because a lot of what I'm going
to talk to you about
we've compiled together in our
journey with Mediasite.
Over the last better part of a
decade, I've had the pleasure
of being involved in almost
all of the Mediasite
installations around
the world.
Since the inception of Mediasite
and lecture capture
itself, one of the most common
questions that I get asked
when I travel is how are others
doing what they do with
their projects with Mediasite?
Within that specifically, the
most common concern is how are
other people getting
their funding?
So today I'm going to share real
stories from out there on
the road, sometimes the names
have been changed to protect
the innocent.
But the best research that we
have internally and external
about how to successfully raise
funds for Mediasite.
Mediasite, and technology
spending in general on
education, but Mediasite in
particular, has been a bright
spot consistently through
various economic times.
There have been, over the last
eight years since lecture
capture was introduced, many
different economic faces, boom
and bust. From post 9/11 to the
difficult global recession
that we find ourselves
in right now.
However, the growth of Mediasite
across the board in
terms of number of units sold
and number of units installed
has continuously grown
throughout this entire period.
Our research and interviews with
our customers that I'll
share with you have identified
a couple of key areas that
rise to the top as the
reasons for this.
The number one and most obvious
is that the benefits
of Mediasite are a
visible impact.
When you're talking about
streaming media and the
automatic capture of knowledge
delivered in video via the
web, there's a certain immediacy
that our customers
report, give projects
surrounding Mediasite more of
a visible impact than some other
projects that you might
raise funds for, for technology
deployment.
Mediasite is a proven solution
at this point.
We've moved into a phase, and
I'll talk briefly about the
history of these phases, but
we've moved into a phase where
the role of lecture capture in
an institution is a proven
commodity, a proven
benefit and the
research supports that.
Investments in Mediasite based
projects are actually a
consistent investment on the
academic side of technology
investment versus the tremendous
amount of funds
that have been spent over the
last 50 years in higher
education, for example, on
administrative systems.
Administrative systems like
ERP, financials, human
resources, student information
systems, while incredibly
important, are dominating the
funds spent up until Y2K.
Now academic based systems like
the CMS and Mediasite are
having their day.
And generally this new type of
investment has some attraction
to stakeholders.
Along the same lines, Mediasite
tends to be more
aligned with the academic
mission particularly of the
higher education institution,
but almost any type of
education institution,
government agency, or even a
corporation.
The academic mission of the
institution is generally
supported by whatever project
people are designing to raise
funds for around Mediasite.
Side And finally, with the
advent of Mediasite reporting,
the benefits of Mediasite are
quantifiable to a very
granular level.
Therefore, the claims you make
about what the benefits that
will occur with the investment
in Mediasite are easily shown.
So brief history, what I found
to be the case from 2002, when
Mediasite was introduced, to
about 2005, roughly, is that
it was the pilot phase.
There were different deployments
going on.
But generally speaking, if you
looked around the world, the
majority of Mediasite projects
were pilots in the following
categories.
Distance learning, an
application for recent
investment in internet
connectivity itself.
Hey, we just built out this
big great network, we need
applications to go on it.
That attracted investment in
Mediasite in the early days.
All over the world, but
particularly in Canada, our
early success was seen around
the double cohort, the
elimination of 13th grade and
overcrowding and looking for
solutions there.
Staff development, trying to
increase the quality and
efficacy while decreasing
the cost of
providing staff training.
The keys to funding sources for
these types of investments
previously were both internal
to the institution, but were
quite often other foundations,
such as the National Science
Foundation, Internet2, even
eRate which Mediasite was not
directly e-ratable but in
surrounding projects, was the
key part of e-ratable
type initiatives.
From 2006 to 2009 we saw a
massive boom in the deployment
of Mediasite into what I like to
call the deployment phase.
People were no longer merely
piloting can rich media help a
particular area, like we
mentioned before, but actually
looking to reap the benefits
of the deployment of rich
media and larger areas.
And these key areas that rise
to the top are important for
the rest of our discussion.
Global outreach.
If there's an international
component to a mission that
you're seeking, rich media and
Mediasite itself has been seen
as a key component of it.
Economic development and
recovery, like what
we're in right now.
Definitely the ability to do
knowledge share job training
in a more efficient way came to
the forefront over the last
three or four years.
Equal access to education for
historically underserved groups.
Labor shortages, so in both
boom and bust, whether you
have a work force that you're
trying to retrain in recovery
or a shortage of a particular
type of personnel, these have
been draws that for which
Mediasite has been a solution.
Disaster preparation
and recovery.
We've seen Mediasite funding
sources externally over avian
flu, swine flu, SARS,
you name it.
Different types of disaster
preparation.
The need to get the word out.
This is attracting a lot
of funds for Mediasite.
And finally community
outreach.
Ever increasing needs and
desires to have open meetings
transmitted has been a draw for
investment in Mediasite in
all types of institutions, not
just higher education, city
municipal government and on.
The global stimulus moment that
we find ourselves in now
is identical to the previous
slide but on steroids, as I'd
like to say.
Right now the American Recovery
and Reinvestment Act
and, all over the world, various
stimulus activities
have been focused on exactly
the same initiatives that I
talked about before, more
often than others.
So you've basically seen the
traditional funding areas,
where there's a nexus between
Mediasite benefit and an
increased amount of funds
available from the government,
finding themselves together
creating a fertile environment
for your application for
external grants.
The breakdown of funding for
Mediasite projects, based on
our internal research, and this
is based on the number of
units, falls roughly into
these categories.
The vast majority of funds for
Mediasite still come from
inside an institutional
organization itself.
But the second largest category
and the largest of
all of the remaining external
categories are federal
government sources.
This is in the United States,
Canada, Mexico, all over
Europe, this still remains to
be true, that the federal
government sources are the
largest single component of
externally sought after finds.
State and provincial county
governments also fold in
there, making the whole public
sector from the government
that large external segment.
But we're also seeing growth in
external funds coming from
private and public corporate
partnerships, which I'll talk
about momentarily, and the
newest but most exciting area,
which are self funded models,
meaning, where the Mediasite
pays for itself directly through
subscription or online
on-demand sales of Mediasite.
And we'll talk about some
examples in each of these
categories.
The most common but largest
real life federal funding
example that I could talk to you
about is a United States
four year research institution
with a significant Hispanic
population.
This university had the
foresight, as many others have
since, to take advantage of
a United States federal
government program to improve
Hispanic serving institutions
and increase their academic
outcomes with a focus on
retention, recruitment
and other key areas.
This is called Title V money,
and many of you out there are
noddling because you've
tried it, you've used
it, you've done it.
But literally hundreds of
Mediasite units are operating
in classrooms that were built
and paid for all or in part
with Title V money.
Also similar to title V money
is Title III money and other
government programs to serve
historically underserved
communities.
Title III Part A and Part B
encompass historically black
universities and native American
and indigenous
populations in the
United States.
but we have seen across the
globe programs similar to this
be an attractive source
to align the Mediasite
capabilities with
seeking grants.
An example of state and
provincial type funding comes
from Canada.
And this is also typical
and replicated
over and over again.
A two year Canadian college
with a significant nursing
education program recognize the
shortage of nurses in that
province provided an opportunity
for them to take
advantage of provincial funds
that were available to
increase any idea that could
more efficiently recruit,
train and produce qualified
health care workers to address
this critical shortage.
This institution was able to
build around Mediasite
technology and simulation
technology, simulation dummies
like SimMan and so forth, a
compelling story and narrative
about how revolutionizing their
facility could address
this critical health
care need.
It was not easy, but it
definitely was fruitful.
And we've seen that replicated
over and over again in the
United States, Canada and all
over the world that provincial
funds, local funds, regional
funds are often available from
the government for these
types of initiatives.
One new trend that is absolutely
massive but has
also been replicated, and this
is an example in our profile,
is that a two year US community
college in a city in
the west was able to, over a
24 month period, design a
campaign that went directly
after municipal and county
bond money to revolutionize
their facilities, with
Mediasite as a centerpiece of
the capabilities that they
would be able to offer.
The hook was the ability to take
the existing education
infrastructure and be able to
educate, take nexuses or
centers of excellence, a
professor over here on this
campus, on this side of town,
is going to be able to reach
and benefit all of the people in
the community by virtue of
real time lecture capture
delivered viably with Mediasite.
And other technological
enhancements that happened in
the overall facility.
But Mediasite is reported to be
compelling part of why this
bond initiative was successful
to the tune
of $100-plus million.
Not everyone is able to do
this, but more and more
institutions we're seeing think
big and go after major
capital equipment money in the
traditional funding ways.
There are also examples of
external sources of funds from
corporate partnerships
with institutions.
In one example, a four year US
institution established a
private corporate partnership
to create a state of the art
classroom studios specifically
to serve the professional
development content of these
constituent corporations.
So they went directly to major
manufacturers that they had
students from, said we have a
new way that we can deliver
online content to your employees
without having the
need to leave their desks
and come to our campus.
It'll be a major upgrade, but
if you support this overall
project with this overall
budget, this is what we'll be
able to deliver to you.
And they were successful.
And this has also been
replicated all over the United
States and all over the world.
Private funding sponsorship,
and this also goes a little
bit to self funding models--
I find this incredibly
creative--
a lot of four year institutions,
but in this
profile a particular four
year institution, used a
combination of athletic booster
funds, private alumni
funds, and local advertising
funds from local businesses,
in conjunction with the branding
capability of the
Mediasite player.
So using those banners, which
many people have had the
ideas, but few people have
followed through or, in their
inception, decided that there
was a connection between
branding and funding.
There is.
People have been able to seek
private funds in this
particular profile in advance,
showing them that if you fund
this type of system, your name
will be here in this type of
broadcast. This has gone for
convocations, gone for
athletic events, and even gone
for lecture capture.
All in this nexus of external
private funding
and business plans.
So those are some real life
examples and some real life
profiles of how customers around
the world have been
able to seek funds, taking
advantage of the nexus between
Mediasite and attractive
investment opportunities for
stakeholders who are interested
in extending the
reach of your institution.
But what are the tools that
these people use to find these
grants or, for internal
justification even, to sharpen
their message so they get heard
above the noise in these
tough economic times?
These are the principles that
we've found, or the general
tools that we've found
our customers have
been successful doing.
First is, review the abundant
literature available on the
subject of fundraising
and fund seeking
for any type of project.
The Chronicle of Higher
Education, University
Business, Inside Higher
Education, these publications
and others are covering the beat
of available funds and
creative use of funds
phenomenally well.
It has become a major focus in
the newsrooms of all of these
types of publications.
So if you simply tune in, you're
going to learn more
about the background
that's going to be
critical to your success.
Review the published
funding sources.
The published funding sources
have never been more easily
searchable and findable to be
able to match within your
institution the particular idea
that you have with some
sort of investment opportunity
that's out there.
So it seems obvious but
incredibly important take
advantage of web based resources
to do this and we
provide a list.
One thing that, I know Erica is
proud, I'm extremely proud
to have found out in our
research is that people point
to the Sonic Foundry webinars,
the case studies that we've
assembled, and most importantly
to me, our
incredible account management
staff out there in the field,
regional managers that you know
well, systems engineers
and inside salespeople here at
Sonic Foundry, as critical in
their success as they prepare
their grant requests and
internal proposals.
Why is this?
Because we talk to everyone and
we are often able to share
best practices that might help
you or research pieces or
anything, any type of resource
that you may need to shape
your proposal.
And again, have it cut
through the noise.
Another important element that
I was surprised to discover,
but definitely have seen
repeated over and over, is
that the most successful
fundraisers often take
advantage of surveys and focus
groups before they prepare
their presentation.
While they're developing their
project, they are able to
create surveys that turn out
and deliver critical
information that will, in the
end, be used to justify why
their project will
be successful.
This hard, objective data
differentiates the most
successful proposals from the
average proposal where
everything is anecdotal
or aspirational.
And I cannot emphasize enough
how even the smallest survey
done at an academic institution
can really help
clarify for an investor
the benefits
that you are proposing.
Another thing that we've
definitely seen be the case is
that live presentations of
your ideas are critical.
This is something that some
people have fallen away from,
but we definitely encourage
you to continue.
Which is that to have a public
meeting about your proposal,
to talk about it, even if
there's three, five, seven
people in the room, allows you
to continue to practice before
you get to that final stage,
articulating your vision and
articulating it succinctly.
If you can add Mediasite to that
equation, in other words
using Mediasite to solicit funds
for Mediasite, we've
seen people be incredibly
successful.
Because then your message is
verbal, illustrated, but also
portable, allowing more and more
people to engage in your
idea and create that momentum.
And finally, the advent
of grant writers.
Grant writers have never been
more in demand than
they are right now.
Most of you probably have some
on your staff or are ones
yourselves.
But even for external projects,
we find people
contracting with grant writers
more successful than
those who do not.
On internal projects, if you
can't, following the
principles that grant writers
follow tends to make people
more successful than
those who do not.
This is a list of resources that
Erica and I have compiled
over the years of different
sources for online research
relative to seeking external
grants that
we discussed before.
Matching up your ideas with the
grants that are available
and out there.
These include, at the top, when
I was talking about the
Title V and Title III and
other federal government
programs and also the American
Recovery Act, ed.gov, an
incredible source that
people use every day.
Also grants.gov has simplified
and aligned a lot of these
things that makes it really
quick to match your ideas with
potential funds that
may be out there.
There are publications that
cover this beat that I
discussed before.
And I forgot to mention Campus
Technology as well.
Wonderful.
So in the external or
supplementary information link
for this presentation you will
find this document with the
hyperlinks built out so you can
go investigate some of the
sources yourself.
Hope you find one or two that
you didn't know about before
this webcast.
So to the five secrets, if I
haven't covered them already.
What this really means to me is,
based on our research, the
top five most important things
that people say have helped
them win over other people when
they're seeking grants to
support lecture capture.
Number one, leverage the
success of others.
You don't compete for these
grants, generally speaking.
Some people have treated-- and
it may be true, please don't
let me mess up your intellectual
property at your
university--
there may be different types
of research grants that you
apply for where secrecy is
incredibly important.
But for the Mediasite
applications and proposals for
external funds, collaboration
has been more important than
competition.
It's a new, emerging world
applying rich media technology
to the academic problems
that there are out
there in the universe.
Therefore, the more you can
show and create comfort by
using examples of projects that
are similar to yours, we
have found, make people
more successful.
Again the Sonic Foundry
resources are reported to be
the best place to start.
The second point is to quantify
your benefits and
test your thesis.
Almost everyone that we surveyed
who's a successful
external grant achiever,
relative to Mediasite, said
that this was absolutely
critical in their endeavor in
comparison to other proposals
that they have beat.
But they were able
to show specific
numbers, specific goals.
We're going to increase
retention by this much, grades
are going to increase by this
much, faculty are going to be
able to leverage their time by
this much, there's going to be
this much ROI.
These types of quantifiable
goals and the surveys,
research or focus group done
in the prework, seem to be
critical in illustrating your
point about how Mediasite is
going to be beneficial.
A third point that our customers
have reported back
to us that's a common mistake
that's made is that, generally
speaking, the average grant
application for external money
is either driven by a
technologist or an academic
program owner and both
are often successful.
But the greatest achievements in
seeking external funds for
an institution come when the
program owner and the
technologist work together
from the beginning.
Establishing those partnerships
between the dean
of the business school and their
vision, and the CIO of
the business school, or the CIO
of the institution, to go
out and seek funds,
for example,
is absolutely critical.
And it makes your particular
application for program
dollars sing compared to others
that are either purely
technological in their benefit
or purely aspirational and
academic in their benefit
and presentation.
Illustrating your vision, which
I talked about before,
has been cited by
so many people
as incredibly important.
The most important element
that was drawn out in the
research for the five key
secrets are mock-ups.
That over and over again, if you
can illustrate by creating
a simulation of what you
intend to propose.
If you're going to do distance
education class, build as many
simulations or tests
as you can.
And you will find yourself more
successful, according to
our customers, than others who
simply conjecture or leave it
in writing how this benefit
is going to look.
And finally, establish post
grant milestones in advance
with all of the parties
on board.
This is something that people
are reporting more and more
critical in 2010, specifically
with the economic stimulus
related dollars, more
than ever before.
You want to control the post
grant process, is what we
hear, by establishing the
milestones in advance of what
is going to connote success
for your program.
The more you do this in advance,
the more likely you
are to be successful.
But also, the post grant
headaches, which so many of my
clients that I researched with
told me about, you've got to
manage that grant.
You know, good news,
we won it.
Bad news, we won it.
The more you've done in
advance to get all the
stakeholders on board about the
milestones that we plan to
achieve in the first six months,
in the first year, and
so on and so forth, not only
help you get it, but they help
you manage it and enjoy it.
So those are the five top
secrets of achieving
fundraising for Mediasite that
we've found to be the case.
That's the end of my prepared
remarks, so maybe
there's some questions.
Fabulous job, Sean, as always.
Congratulations.
So yeah, we have a ton of
questions coming in, but as a
reminder, please click on
that speech bubble.
And again, please provide
your email address.
We'll have about five minutes
for questions right now, but
we'll absolutely follow up
with you one on one.
And if you're watching this on
demand, we'll still follow up
with you then, too.
So the first question
is about some of the
examples you provided.
And we understand you've got to
skim across the surface in
terms of revealing who
some of these are.
But the person asked, several
of the examples sum up
precisely what we're trying
to do at my college, is it
possible to get more detail
about their approaches offline
or talk with some of
these individuals?
Absolutely.
People are so forthcoming
and I want to
thank all of the people--
I should have done that
in the beginning.
I want to thank all of the
people who helped us prepare
the best examples that we have.
There are people who are
willing to talk and share.
It's one thing to hook people up
individually, it's another
thing to broadcast their laundry
in a webcast like this
to hundreds of people.
So whoever asked that question,
we will follow up
with you, if there's any
particular examples you're
interested in, we'll reach out
to folks, or folks like the
profile that I gave, and try
to hook you up directly if
they are willing to speak.
Great.
And Lynn has a question,
very simple.
How much should I ask for?
Ha ha ha, you see, that
wasn't in anything.
How much to ask for is the most
difficult thing to do.
But basically it comes
under the category of
constructing a budget.
And that was kind of one of
the first things that we
thought of, but I'll just tell
you what most people think.
Basically, constructing a budget
that is fair, rational
and is what you need tends to
be what we've found our
clients do who are successful.
They don't say well, if you want
$1 million, ask for $5
million, or you want $10,000
ask for $50,000.
People aren't playing those
games in 2010 as much as maybe
they did in my past. You
basically sit down and you
construct a budget that you
can defend with the best
research that you have. And
that's what you present.
So if you have a vision of x
number of classrooms need to
be online, then you price
out everything.
You price out the Mediasite
piece, you price out the
cameras and the microphones and
any facilities renovations
that need to be done.
You build your budget that way,
if there's FTEs involved,
you're not shy about it and
you put it out there.
In our experience, people who
are grant managers appreciate
a realistic budget for success
more than something that's
artificially low and certainly
not things that are padded or
artificially high.
These days especially.
That's a great question.
And Dale asked about the
interactivity aspect.
He says, I have no doubt about
the value of lecture capture
for enhancing education,
however, is there a loss of
interactivity and how is that
affecting potential funding
for interactive distance-based
classes?
That's a great question and that
gets into the detail of
the benefits, which I won't go
on and on about, because
that's what we do every week.
But the reason that's such an
excellent question is that a
lot of the early applications
for pilots were to prove, is
lecture capture going to be
good for students, bad for
students, are their grades
going to go up or down?
And it's kind of settled law at
this point, I like to say,
in that you can find numerous
examples to say that it does
not depress performance.
It at least is parallel with
being in class and it can
increase it, especially in a
blended learning environment.
However, there's different
reports that run counter to
that, occasionally.
But basically, the success of
Mediasite is predicated
largely on the fact that that
was proven in the early 2000s
that this is an enhancement,
generally speaking, to
education and pedagogy no
matter how you cut it.
And there's plenty of available
research that we can
provide you that will support
that, as well as anecdotal and
communal information that you
can get from talking to
individuals who have deployed
Mediasite in some large way.
And I think the key, too, and
you've covered this, but to
say that you don't necessarily
just have to Mediasite on
demand, or just Mediasite
live.
That many people use
it for retention.
But again, that goes into the
whole what you're talking
about, creating this
vision, this
illustration ahead of time.
How do you want to use it?
Is it going to replicate the
in-room experience or
complement the in-room
experience?
Definitely.
So it's a lot of wide
open area there.
Another question about the
funding and then what?
You talked about the benefits,
but how do you understand what
the benefits of lecture capture
are in order to get
the funding without-- it's sort
of a chicken or the egg
kind of question.
No, but it's a good question.
And it is what all of us faced
in the very beginning.
And that's why I say,
reach out to your
Sonic Foundry personnel.
We're here to help and here to
be an ombudsman and Sherpa, as
you would say, to guide
you into this.
In the early days it
was hard to vision.
It was like you had an instinct
that rich media and
real time capture could
benefit in some way an
institution, but you couldn't
necessarily draw
a map to that place.
Now we can help you draw
a map to that place.
If you are a business school,
if you are a medical school,
if you are a community
organization, if you are a
corporation that wants to
increase profits, there is
some lineup of examples that we
can show you, the good, the
bad, the ugly, to follow and
avoid, to optimize and show
you what the outcome will be.
So really work with
those who are more
experienced to lead the way.
And a similar question about
that, changing the culture,
that we have vision for lecture
capture in IT and
maybe, say, the college of
engineering, but how do we
stress the value of lecture
capture in other parts of the
school or in the changing higher
education environment?
My answer to that is, what do
you do if you're ready but the
rest of the campus is not?
Well, I went through the eras--
and I'll keep this
short because we're running
low on time-- but in the
beginning, people agreed
to disagree.
Those who were ready
moved ahead.
There was a Balkanization of the
efforts after an initial
attempt to be universal
and horizontal.
So the engineering school
would go ahead with the
blessing of the others.
Let's see how you
do and all that.
The beauty of Mediasite
technology is that it's so
customizable that, you know,
somebody joins later, and they
can still have their own look
and feel and all that.
So that's one answer is, don't
cooperate necessarily.
Don't necessarily think
universally.
But when you're seeking funds
for the whole institution,
everybody does have to agree.
So in that case, that goes
back to the envisioning.
That goes back to the
public meetings and
everything else like that.
The more you can mock-up, this
is what a lecture in
engineering looks like, you're
in humanities, which-- that's
my background-- you know,
you have no interest,
necessarily, right now.
I'm just making up that as a
general tendency, but they may
have no interest. Illustrate
for them how it can benefit
and give them room to see their
lecture and say, this
doesn't help us or say, this
is the coolest thing we've
ever seen and we've never
thought about it.
That's the key.
So experiments, mock-ups,
evaluations, tests, taping
specific events, but being able
to hand somebody an email
with links that shows them
what could be is the most
wonderful part about doing this
in 2010, versus doing
this in 2002, when we weren't
sure about dial-up, and would
it be there.
And if we built it, would
they come, and all that.
But we still had an instinct.
2010, no, we can show people
what the future looks like
when they're not
quite on board.
And definitely keep us in mind
for resources in terms of
examples of those types of
links, use Google or search as
your friend to search for
Mediasite content that's
related to a specific school.
It's very compelling when
you see yourself in
the Mediasite player.
Feel like an old man.
We didn't even have
Google when--
That's right.
Thank you so much for
joining us today.
And a couple, again, closing
housekeeping notes.
A couple people have noted that
the presentation links,
the PDFs aren't clickable.
And so we will correct that
for you and you'll have an
updated PDF attached when
you get this in
your archive email.
And again, if you
have any other
questions, keep them coming.
Just click on that Ask
button and please
include your email address.
Thanks so much for
joining us today.
Thanks to our presented,
Sean Brown, and
have a great afternoon.